On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 06:46 PM, Seth Dillingham wrote:
> On 3/20/02, Brent Simmons said:
>
>> 1. Hosting is evil. Maybe that's just me. But people expect hosting
>> to be very low cost if not free and they expect performance and
>> uptime and quick response to trouble (or perceived trouble).
>>
>> When you're hosting you're also answering people's questions about
>> the software -- How do I?... kind of questions. So you can't do
>> hosting without software support.
>>
>> It seems to me that people (in general) don't value a CMS when they
>> can't see it. If they interact with it only via the Web, they sort
>> of assume that it must be very cheap to run. It's not, of course.
>
> We're doing a lot of hosting already... some people haven't been
> paying attention to us, I know, but we have a number of servers all
> running paid Conversant sites, hosted at Macrobyte.
And Macrobyte is great at support and documentation. But it is
definitely a non-zero amount of effort.
>> 2. That Conversant runs in Radio is of huge importance. That means
>> people only need $40 for the platform. Excellent.
>>
>> But you run into this serious issue -- you're competing with two
>> UserLand CMSes, not just one. Radio contains a CMS. And of course
>> UserLand wants people to buy Manila/Frontier.
>>
>> With such a small community, having the support of UserLand is
>> important. What would selling Conversant for Radio do to your
>> relationship with UserLand? I won't guess, but if I were you I'd
>> probably want to have a good idea in advance.
>
> I agree that this could be a problem.
I don't see a problem.
> However, Dave already knows
> (
http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/02/17#
> ), and he didn't seem to upset about.
He's also said on another occasion that "Radio is a great server
platform". If that isn't inviting developers to use it as a _platform_
for _server_s, then I don't know what is (that's classic confusion), but
I don't think that's the case at all.
>> a. Can I write in Perl/Python/Java -- some language I know already?
>
> You could certainly write plugins which uses those languages, yes,
> but they'd have to be called by something written in UserTalk, via
> COM, AppleEvents, or TCP.
Or OSA languages on the mac, OSA or unix languages on OSX, etc.
>> c. Why tie up my data in a proprietary database format?
>
> So don't, use mySQL, MS SQL, Oracle, PostGRES, or text files in the
> file system, if you want to. Conversant doesn't mind.
>
> I told you this already, but I guess you forgot.
I don't think he was really posing the question, but instead posing the
questions that other people will likely pose.
>> f. Can I run it behind Apache?
>
> Not at the moment, so, no.
I doubt it would be hard (in the grand scheme of things) to change that
though.
>> l. Does it import from Quark?
>
> Sounds like a plugin.
Or a script/app in any language that accesses Conversant's XML-RPC
interface.
>> m. Can I create PDFs from my Conversant websites?
>
> Sounds like a plugin.
XML-RPC to XML using (any language) to PDF using FOP (Java).
Lots of ways there.
>> o. Isn't Manila easier to use for the novice? We have a bunch of
>> less-than-savvy folks here at the office.
>
> Nope. It might be at the moment, but we're working on that and I'm
> hoping it'll be at least partially solved by the time Conversant is
> released.
Depends on what you want to do. If you want to do the things Conversant
does and Manila doesn't, it's quite a bit easier to do it in
Conversant. ;-)
....
Note that Conversant's plugins are... a lot different than Manila
plugins or Radio tools. They have much deeper access into Conversant
and more access. A Conversant plugin feels more like part of the system
than a Manila plugin which often feels like something grafted onto the
side.
How to create a Conversant plugin:
QuickScript: Conversant.plugins.create ("PluginName")
Done. Then add your callbacks, templates, page types, macros, whatever
it is you're trying to do (that's only a small fraction of what plugins
can do).
I've been evaluating Conversant at work, and I've already managed to
create a simple plugin that extends Conversant's power in my direction.
Jim
