[tw] : Right and Wrong in Atheism

“Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality?”
From:	Seth Dillingham	In Response To:	Top of Thread.
Date Posted:	Sunday, April 1, 2001 9:57:17 PM	Replies:	16

Enclosures:	None.

I have a question.

Do true aetheists - and I mean those of a strongly skeptical mind - have a sense of right and wrong, and if so, why?

Now, by "true aetheist with a stronly skeptical mind", I mean someone who has truly considered the existence of God - a true, living God - and decided that he does not exist. I know of aethiests who simply don' t have any religious background and never really considered it in the first place... that's "aetheism by default", but comes more from a lack of thought than the result of it. See the difference?

Are there any aetheists that fit that category?

I'm decidedly theistic - I know what I believe and why I believe it - but I'm not posing this question to discuss the merits of aetheism. I'm not trying to "show them the light", and I won't allow the conversation to drift too far on this subject. It's simply a question I'm truly curious about, and I'm tired of wondering and thinking about it.

There are a number of points that I'd like to touch on, but I've found that big open - ended questions like the one above generally leads to better discussion, so I'll save my discussion points until I find out if anyone is even willing to discuss this with me.

So, have anything to say on the subject? You don't have to be an aetheist yourself - though I am certainly hoping for some first-hand information - anybody with thoughts or opinions on this subject are encouraged to speak up.

Discussion Thread:

RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Brian Carnell at 4/2/2001)

Seth wrote: Do true atheists - and I mean those of a strongly skeptical mind - have a sense of right
- RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism (by Seth Dillingham at 4/2/2001)
  
  On Monday, April 2, 2001 at 1:22 PM, Brian Carnell wrote: >Almost everyone I've ever met, except for
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Brian Carnell at 4/2/2001)
    
    At 02:21 PM 4/2/2001 -0400, Seth wrote: >But don't you think that moral intuition (or internalized
    - RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism (by Seth Dillingham at 4/2/2001)
      
      On Monday, April 2, 2001 at 3:39 PM, Brian Carnell wrote: >>This country's sense of right and wrong
      - RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism (by Brian Carnell at 4/3/2001)
        
        At 05:23 PM 4/2/2001 -0400, Seth wrote: > >OTOH, ultimately it does seem that secular morality
    - Re: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Sean McMains at 4/2/2001)
      
      On the other hand, isn't this a problem with theistic morality as well? I mean the text of the Bible
      - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Brian Carnell at 4/3/2001)
        
        At 10:35 PM 4/2/2001 -0400, Sean wrote: >This is certainly a problem in determining what things are
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Brian Carnell at 4/2/2001)
    
    BTW, when Seth talked about atheists views of morality over time I couldn't help but think of pragmatists
    - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Seth Dillingham at 4/2/2001)
      
      On Monday, April 2, 2001 at 3:55 PM, Brian Carnell wrote: >BTW, when Seth talked about atheists views
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Philippe Martin at 4/2/2001)
    
    At 14:21 -0400 2/04/01, Seth Dillingham wrote: >But don't you think that moral intuition (or internalized
RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Greg Pierce at 4/2/2001)

> Do true aetheists - and I mean those of a strongly skeptical mind > - have a sense of right
- RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Jim Roepcke at 4/3/2001)
  
  I wouldn't call myself aetheist, I consider that a far extreme... I'd call myself agnostic. When I first
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Greg Pierce at 4/3/2001)
    
    > I wouldn't call myself aetheist, I consider that a far extreme... > I'd call myself agnostic.
Re: Right and Wrong in Aetheism (by Philippe Martin at 4/2/2001)

At 23:08 -0400 1/04/01, you wrote: >I have a question. > >Do true aetheists - and I mean those
What is Atheism? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/4/2001)

It seems that a few people need to rethink their position on atheism. According to the dictionaries
- RE: What is Atheism? (by Greg Pierce at 4/4/2001)
  
  > It seems that a few people need to rethink their position on > atheism. According to the dictionaries
- Re: What is Atheism? (by Brian Carnell at 4/4/2001)
  
  At 10:53 AM 4/4/2001 -0400, Seth wrote: >agnosticism (http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=agnosticism)
  - Re: What is Atheism? (by Mark Morgan at 4/7/2001)
    
    That being said, I do not think this is a good definition of agnostic. Usually when I have seen the
Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Joel Jenkins at 4/17/2001)

When disussing the moral reasons why or not one becomes (or already is) an aetheist, one will also need
- Re: Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Brian Carnell at 4/17/2001)
  
  At 12:36 PM 4/17/2001 -0400, Joel Jenkins wrote: >When disussing the moral reasons why or not one
  - Re: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/17/2001)
    
    Brian said: >This is off-topic but from a strictly Darwinian point of view, if you are >going to choose
    - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Brian Carnell at 4/17/2001)
      
      At 08:01 PM 4/17/2001 -0400, Seth wrote: >Actually, other than trying to resurrect the fertility
      - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Sean McMains at 4/18/2001)
        
        If the question is "what would natural selection want me to do?" the answer is probably not too far
        
        RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/18/2001)
        
        On Wednesday, April 18, 2001 at 3:24 PM, Sean McMains wrote: >Oh, you'd certainly want to throw polygamy
        
        RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Brian Carnell at 4/18/2001)
        
        At 03:24 PM 4/18/2001 -0400, Sean wrote: >Oh, you'd certainly want to throw polygamy in there to
      - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/18/2001)
        
        Brian Carnell said: >Actually, the irony I was trying to get at was that if our correspondent >was serious
        
        RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Brian Carnell at 4/18/2001)
        
        Seth wrote: > >Actually, the irony I was trying to get at was that if our correspondent > >was
- RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/17/2001)
  
  Joel said: >When disussing the moral reasons why or not one becomes (or already is) >an aetheist, one
  - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/17/2001)
    
    I should not have said: >You really are an advanced example of mankind. That was extremely rude, and
    - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Jim Roepcke at 4/18/2001)
      
      I'm relieved you apologized Seth, because I found that comment offensive and it really bothered me last
      - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step? (by Seth Dillingham at 4/18/2001)
        
        On Wednesday, April 18, 2001 at 1:46 PM, Jim Roepcke wrote: >I'm relieved you apologized Seth, because
- RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Brian Carnell at 4/18/2001)
  
  It occurred to me a minute ago what really bugged me about Joel's post. When disussing the moral reasons
  - Re: Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Mark Morgan at 4/18/2001)
    
    Evolution might explain why some moral systems have been more successful than others, just as zoology
    - RE: Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Brian Carnell at 4/19/2001)
      
      Mark wrote: >As is typical, Brian, you beat me to my own point. From what I know of >evolutionary
- Re: Aetheism is an evolutionary step. (by Tom Holzel at 4/30/2005)
  
  While aethism is correct in claiming that "supenatural" is a contradiction in terms, it seems unable
One atheist speaks (by Brent Simmons at 9/19/2001)

I'm an atheist. I have a great deal of respect for religion and people with faith, but faith never came
RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Michael Lopez at 2/24/2002)

I used to teach sunday school, three different church summer camps and was a student leader for my highschool
- RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Laura Brennan at 6/1/2002)
  
  Does it really matter if there is or isn't a God? We'll all find out when we die anyway. Personally
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Seth Dillingham at 6/1/2002)
    
    On 6/1/02, Laura Brennan said: >Does it really matter if there is or isn't a God? We'll all find out
  - RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Brian Carnell at 6/1/2002)
    
    At 11:54 AM 6/1/2002 -0400, Laura Brennan wrote: >As for moral values, I think they're based on a
RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by STEVEN LOUIS ROSS at 9/8/2003)

I am what you called an "aetheist by default" i have never believed and i never will. Religion
- RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Brian Carnell at 9/8/2003)
  
  At 11:24 AM 9/8/2003, Steven Louis Ross wrote: >I am what you called an "aetheist by default" i have
- Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Bill Kearney at 9/9/2003)
  
  Quoting Kierkegaard out of context, eh? Foolish to you, but not to everyone. I'm often struck by how
  - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Brian Carnell at 9/9/2003)
    
    There's also something a bit odd about someone calling themselves "an atheist by default" complaining
    - RE: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Seth Dillingham at 9/9/2003)
      
      On 9/9/2003, Brian Carnell said: >There's also something a bit odd about someone calling themselves
      - Re: RE: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by STEVEN LOUIS ROSS at 9/12/2003)
        
        I had never heard the term aetheist by default before i got on this site. The reason that i said thats
  - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by STEVEN LOUIS ROSS at 9/12/2003)
    
    The reason that masses of people participate in faith is due to one reason: people are weak! They want
RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Thomas Stegen at 10/30/2003)

I signed up just to reply to this :) But I'll stick around to see if any more of these discussions show
- Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Bill Kearney at 10/31/2003)
  
  > My premises does not necessarily lead to my conclusion. The ultimate > goal of ethics is always the
  - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Darweed at 6/2/2004)
    
    "God" is the explanation for the unexplainable. Simple huh? That is how I sum up religion. Atheist since
    - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Mike at 6/2/2004)
      
      Unfortunately for your "simple" logic, without "God" it remains unexplainable. With the truth about
      - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Jim Roepcke at 6/2/2004)
        
        On Jun 2, 2004, at 10:12 AM, Mike wrote: > <http://www.truerwords.net/3952> > --------------------------------
        
        Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Darweed at 6/3/2004)
        
        People, No need to twist and distort the simple meaning of my statement. It simply implies
        
        Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Brian Carnell at 6/3/2004)
        
        Darweed wrote: > No need to twist and distort the simple meaning of my statement. >It simply implies
    - Re: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Brian Carnell at 6/2/2004)
      
      Darweed wrote: >"God" is the explanation for the unexplainable. >Simple huh? That is how I sum up religion.
      - RE: Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Mark Morgan at 6/2/2004)
        
        Brian Carnell wrote: > But religions hardly limit >themselves to explaining things that are (or were)
What does God have to do with it ? (by ET at 1/9/2006)

I'd like to ask you the opposite question: what does God have to do with morality? The way I see it,
- Re: What does God have to do with it ? (by Seth Dillingham at 1/9/2006)
  
  ET, I'm sorry, but you're responding to a VERY old thread (five years). The truth is, I've moved on.
Invisible Pink Unicorns (by ET at 1/9/2006)

Another small point on the atheism vs. agnosticism debate... One needs to remember that it is impossible
- Re: Invisible Pink Unicorns (by Brian Carnell at 1/9/2006)
  
  Um, no. The statement below is false, and is simply a variation on the myth that you can't prove a negative.
Re: Invisible Pink Unicorns (by ET at 1/9/2006)

Seth : I realize the topic is 5 years old, but I wanted to write this for myself anyways and the discussion
Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Bill Feeley at 11/25/2006)

I was raised christian. I was brought up to believe that god is always there for us, and that all we
Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by David Graham-Battersby at 4/4/2007)

I do like your question and I have considered God. First you should know I am an Atheist. But if you
RE: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by Gary Hart at 8/25/2007)

I was raised in the south under the iron fist of a baptist upbringing. I was taught that any thought
Re: Right and Wrong in Atheism - Godless Morality? (by nikkinishi at 2/25/2008)

I am atheistic by choice. I was raised with some religion, but never attended church regularly. As I

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