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Topic: Those Cartoons

Messages: (5) 1


Author: Seth Dillingham

Date:2/7/2006

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# 5351

Those Cartoons

I'm not particularly surprised that the European press ran those cartoons that have the Muslim world in an uproar.

I am surprised that Dave Winer hasn't even mentioned them, as far as I can tell, nevermind actually run one or two of them himself. (I wonder if he's even considered showing one of them?)

It also surprises me that so few American papers have run it. Not that I'm claiming they should: not running them seems to have shown some wise self-restraint. Or maybe they're just scared.

Are the cartoons being avoided out of respect for Muslim beliefs, or is it just fear of reprisals?

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Author: Brian Carnell

Date:2/7/2006

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# 5352

Re: Those Cartoons

Clearly its fear of reprisals. Some of the cartoons are genuinely
offensive, but some of them are clearly not. And I don't remember any
news outlet refusing to show Serrano's "Piss Christ" out of deference to
Christians. If I remember correctly, it was splashed (pun intended) in
every newspaper and news broadcast and the government program that paid
for it was vigorously defended as free speech.

It's also annoying the media doesn't put this into a broader context
that materials published in the Middle East are routinely censored even
for what most of us would consider non-offensive image. They really take
the prohibition of images of Mohammed seriously.

What this highlights, IMO, is there really is this serious ongoing clash
of civilizations and ideologies between the West and much of the rest of
the world where illiberalism still dominates. Its kind of funny to see
the fear of our religious right in the U.S. and then you see something
like the Muslim cartoons protests and you realize just how defanged even
the far right wingers are in the West.

Seth Dillingham wrote:
> <http://www.truerwords.net/5351>
> --------------------------------
>
> I'm not particularly surprised that the European press ran those
> cartoons that have the Muslim world in an uproar.
>
> I am surprised that Dave Winer <http://scripting.com/> hasn't even
> mentioned them, as far as I can tell, nevermind actually run one or two of
> them himself. (I wonder if he's even considered showing one of them?)
>
> It also surprises me that so few American papers have run it. Not that I'm
> claiming they should: not running them seems to have shown some wise
> self-restraint. Or maybe they're just scared.
>
> Are the cartoons being avoided out of respect for Muslim beliefs, or is it
> just fear of reprisals?
>
> --------------------------------
> Unsubscribe Instructions:
> <http://www.truerwords.net/mailinglist.html#unsubscribe>
>
>

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Author: Levi Pearson

Date:2/7/2006

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# 5353

RE: Those Cartoons

It's not just cartoons now, either. See http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002814.html for a discussion of a certain statue in the Supreme Court's courtroom.

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Author: Terry Frazier

Date:2/7/2006

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# 5355

Re: Those Cartoons

We have a long history of running cartoons here that disparage and offend people, for whatever reason. We run cartons about the Nativity, politicians, the Pope, institutions, all sorts of things. No one burns down buildings over them. We call it satire and freedom of speech.

But I am not surprised that the Amercan papers have avoided them. They are so conflicted about what to do, they can't figure out the right way to go. Clearly they are treating this incident far differently than we would treat *any* similar incident in our own culture. So here we have the great journalistic insitutions of our time, built upon the inalienable right of free speech, trying desperately to be pollitically correct and not offend a culture that is, at heart, offended by our very existence.

When the 4th Estate starts selectively supporting free speech they have a major problem.

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Author: Seth Dillingham

Date:2/7/2006

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# 5356

StratFor On the Significance of Those Cartoons

Strategic Forecasting sent out their latest, free intelligence report today. This one provides a pretty thorough analysis of the background and results of Those Cartoons.

I've attached the whole article (with permission), but here's my favorite quote:

European states cannot control what private publications publish. That means that, like it or not, they are hostage to Islamic perceptions. The threat, therefore, is not under their control. And thus, even if the actions or policies of the United States did precipitate 9/11, the Europeans are no more immune to the threat than the Americans are.

If you're at all interested in the apparent "collision of civilizations," read this article.

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